After reading a bit from Dubois and Washington, where do you come down on their disagreements regarding the best way to educate African-Americans in the post-civil War U.S.? Does their debate have any relevance today (for African-Americans or other marginalized groups)?
I tend to lean more towards Dubois' argument that blacks should be given the opportunity for higher education so that they can rise up and fight against racial injustice. I think that minorities should be given a chance at higher education so that at least few of them can become more than menial laborers. However, given the oppression of blacks at the time, it's very unlikely that any African American will rise up. They still need schools that will train them in a trade so that they can work and provide for their families. It's a paradox I am trying to wrestle with, and I think that it's an argument that is still relevant today, but not just along racial lines. There are poor and oppressed people of every race that could benefit a lot from an opportunity of a good education.
ReplyDeleteI think that Dubois values what Washington does in providing African Americans a technical education, however both he and I feel that just having a vocational education is not sufficient. Minorities would benefit a lot having members of their community who are in higher positions such as law or government.
Though I understand Washington's logic of "vocational education", I most definitely have to agree with Dubois's idea of African Americans receiving higher levels of education. I think that they should receive the higher education to broaden their minds and decrease the oppression within their race. Because they were enslaved in the past, the "slave-like" mentality still persists today. Therefore, causing members of the race to settle for vocational education, low wage jobs, and become passive to racial injustice. African Americans who receive higher education are less likely to settle for these stereotypical standards within their race because of the fact that they have been educated beyond vocational means. With that being said, Dubois's and Washington's ideas of education for African Americans live on today. Though vocational institutions are mainly targeted to public schools that are predominantly African American, many of them go on to receive higher education; there are even higher educational institutions specifically for African Americans.
ReplyDeleteIt is a well known fact that African Americans are faced with oppression in society (in the past and currently today), but that does not mean that they are unlikely to rise above those circumstances. There are many African Americans who hold/held high positions or have changed the world despite being faced with adversity.
Booker T. Washington emphasized more on the "industrial education" of students going to "Negro school supplemented by industrial training" meaning that school would teach African-American students not only how to read but how to do something that will beneficial later on like employment that will result in pay like doing something with ones' hands to build or make. In a way, his way is like vocational and technical schools that are set up today. But Mr. Washington role in progress for African-American was too compromising in way if compared to Dubois's way of educating African-American. Booker T. Washington way of education is to make a smooth transition for African-Americans into education after they gained their freedom. Dubois on the other hand, as Tom mentioned, urged education to be a way for African-Americans to rise above and trample over injustice for the African-Americans. I believe with Dubois that education is a tool to rise above so that African-Americans would have a place in the Universities and governmental roles etc.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that the debate is still relevant today. Vocational schools and technical, from my experience at my high school, was something to look down upon and majority that went to these schools was lower income students and ESL students. Likewise, Dubois criticized Washington of his "industrial education" as Washington was giving up the African-Americans rights to "political power, civil rights and higher education". This can be compared to education today as well and where minorites lie on the spectrum.
Is there a reason why lower income students and ESL students choose a technical school over higher education? Is it because they are oppressed and feel forced to gain a position in society or for economic reasons? Or even maybe( I feel like this reason is overlooked) is that they like a special field and want to pursue that? However in conclusion, like Tom stated this debate is not only between races or ethnicity but also lower economical families.
Reading both sides, I find myself leaning more towards Washington when it comes to education in the South. In the North, I'd lean more towards Dubois. While in the North, industrialization and businesses were rising rapidly, the South was trailing behind. Evidence for this can be clearly seen when looking at the differences between Southern cities and Northern cities. Richmond, Atlanta, Raleigh, etc vs. New York, Pittsburgh, Boston, etc. Southern cities grew so slowly in comparison to Northern cities. The North did not have such social barriers between African Americans and Caucasians. The push for rapid revolution, a more Dubois idea, would be more accepted there.
ReplyDeleteAfter the Civil War, many whites were disenfranchised in the South. Money was worthless. Agriculture was still the primary means of wealth. A great percentage of white people were dirt poor. Most Southerners did not own slaves. Their cause for fighting the war had little to do with them. And, for Northerners to come and take over, elevating the African Americans, made Southerners bitter. Washington's approach of earning respect slowly would be far better received than revolution.
Also, given the climate of Southern economy, Washington's notions of focusing on technical education were not misguided. A vast majority of African Americans (and Caucasians really) would end up with a career in the technical fields. Readying people for that over the select few who might want to go to college is simply a better allocation of resources. Of course, this wasn't true of the North; it's why Dubois' ideas would work up there but not in the South.
Like my fellow classmates, I see this debate repeated in today's debate between focusing on college-prep programs or technical programs. Does it make sense to focus primarily on college prep when a vast majority of students will never go to college? And vis versa. Does it make sense to allocate the most funds to technical programs when a vast majority of students will go to college? I imagine there's a compromise between these, though its execution may be difficult.
I think DuBois' ideas on schooling are better, but more ideal, and perhaps less realistic to employ in the South. White Southerners felt threatened by the newly freed blacks, and therefore would not be accepting of the things that DuBois proposed. Washington's ideas, while unhelpful in effecting social change, were more realistic for implication in the South, and perhaps a blend of the two men's ideas would have been the most ideal.
ReplyDeleteI think this is still a relevant issue today, though perhaps it has become more of a class discussion than a race discussion. Still, class and race are intertwined. Discriminating against a lower socioeconomic status effectively discriminates against minority races. But the line here is blurred, because what one person argues is discrimination against the poor can also be argued as realism, or the cost of doing business. There will never come a point where everyone can afford to go to college, nor would it be realistic for everyone to go to college Unfortunately vocational programs are a result of needing skilled workers, and people with less money need jobs sooner out of high school than their middle- and upper-class counterparts. I think we are moving in the right direction by offering scholarships and grants, but something is still missing. This issue is definitely not resolved.
In my opinion, Dubois’s idea for American Americans receiving an education would be better than Washington’s idea. I think they should be given the opportunity of a higher education just as everyone else and they can then choose the kind of job they desire to have. It will definitely be more of a challenge to follow through with Dubois’s idea but it will be more beneficial in the future of the African Americans. Like Sachi mentioned, the vocational schools, which was what Washington wanted, are looked down upon even today because it is thought that they are not as smart as someone with a higher level education. However, I think if they are going to give African Americans an education, they should be given all of the same opportunities as the whites were given. I also agree with what Sam was saying about this still being a relevant issue today on education; however it is now with classes versus races. Like we have recently been discussing in class, it seems that today the issue of which school district you go to determines the opportunities you have for an education. Where I am from where there is a large middle class population, my high school encouraged everyone to get the highest education they possibly could such as attending a college or university. There were however many schools in districts around of that were of mostly lower class families where a college or university was not encouraged to attend, but instead a trade school or vocational school was encouraged.
ReplyDeleteI saw two very valid philosophies for education towards African-Americans during the post-civil war period. W.E.B. Dubois' view of an equal opportunity environment makes good logical sense, especially on the humanitarian level. This perspective suggests all people, no matter the color of their skin or ethnic background are of equal value or self-worth if you will. With this in mind, as Dubois thought, African-Americans were just as equally capable of achieving what any white man could. His high aspirations are most likely a result of his own personal educational upbringing and achievements. As an adolescent who didn't face much prejudice and the first African American to graduate Harvard with a Ph.D, it is clear to see how this may have significantly influenced his take on education.
ReplyDeleteBooker T. Washington on the other hand advocated the importance of developing practical physical skills. Although, he did not neglect the essentialness of a mental education. His acceptance towards the idea of racial segregation is radically opposite compared to DuBois' perspective. But I believe that it may be rooting from his sense of pride which seems like strong portrayal of confidence and independence if you ask me. I agree with his emphasis on hands on type skills, I believe it’s something that is very useful for the majority of people living in America during that time and present day.
I think a compromise-natured fusion of the two sides would be optimal for the educational opportunities of African-Americans. Well people of all races for that matter. And this so happens to be the case in present day society, for the most part at least. It’s basically the case disregarding the certain unfortunate circumstances caused as a result of poverty and poor welfare. Considering the vast variety of the types of education and schooling environment that is available today, it’s reasonable to claim that everyone who has at least an average opportunity should be satisfied with the institution they attend. Public/private schools, boarding schools, vocational schools, community colleges, and four-year universities amongst many other variations are all capable of encompassing the differing needs of an American individual seeking for an education or practical hands on experience in the work force.
It’s nice to see that there is a way of creating an educational environment in the form of a school or institute that predominantly is made up of a certain group of people without it being considered segregation or inequality. Like Courtney mentioned, there are schools like Howard University which is predominantly African American and its known to be one of the most sought after and respected programs in DC, let alone the entire nation. Times have changed.
Washington and Dubois’s argument raises a difficult question. Washington seems to be a realist searching for the most passive realistic solution. While Dubois seems prepared to fight or at least push for better more equal opportunities for African Americans.
ReplyDeleteI feel that Dubois would respect Washington’s attempt to maintain or better the status of African Americans, but disagree that vocational training is the only option. He seemed to believe that education could be used to help pull African Americans out of the state of inequality that they were stuck in. I agree with Dubois wholly. I am a strong believer in always pushing for a better solution that benefits everyone.
This argument is so relevant today because of how our education system is organized. Many children that speak English as a second language are being done a disservice by the education system in the same way that African Americans were following the Civil War and in many ways still are. In class we have discussed how the distribution of vocational programs at schools with minority populations is very interesting. We concluded that many minority students are being directed into these programs as opposed to being informed about colleges and universities.
I honestly feel that even though Washington may have been more realistic due to the conditions in the south following the civil, it is always a leader’s responsibility to strive for the best possible outcome for those they represent. I feel Washington was more inclined to wait for a change in the status quo than to fight for the well-being of the people he spoke for.
Washington and Dubois have to opposing solutions to a relatively similar problem. I feel like Dubois’s aggressive approach was a better way to handle the situation at the time. Not belittling Washington’s because it was a beautiful and realistic thought, but you can’t change the status quo by remaining too passive. His idea of accentuating people of color in the southern commercial world may have only worked for those in the south. Industrial training will only teach the colored people manual training, they need more of a textbook education to expand past that. I felt like there wasn’t too much of a universal plan towards all colored people of the United States to gain equal educational rights. Though he mentioned a progressive and sincere, not artificial, struggle, I didn’t see much of a progressive effort other than him wanting to cease voting and advocating for equal testing rights. His efforts did not go unnoticed though, seeing that Grover Cleveland supported him in his efforts, was seen as an ally, and donated money towards Washington’s schools. I did find it disturbing to see how passive Washington was on one of his beliefs. He saw a justified reason for the white people to dislike the Negroes, and said it was because of their own degradation. If the people of color have been oppressed, educationally and socially, how do you expect them to even become a valuable person in society? Second, he said that the future depends on his own efforts. Just like Dubois, I too agree that this is only half right. Dubois mentions that he wants cooperation from the whites because no progress can be made during oppression. Even if you have the drive to accomplish equality, passive aggressively fighting for justice is as useful as trying to walk through a brick wall. If there isn’t an equal give and take there will only be a great amount of time and energy wasted.
ReplyDeleteDubois idea on how to attain his educational goal is a little more risky but not overzealous and is attainable. He wants to fight past the poorly equipped schools and for the under trained children. He agrees with Washington that industrial/manual training should teach the people of color to work, but simple schools should teach them to read and write. I agree with this (only in regards to the 19th century) because of Washington’s belief in not ceasing voting rights. If the younger generation is not adequately taught to read and write then how will they be able to read the candidates on the ballot or use their penmanship to communicate? Dubois fights for profitable training for both black and white men in order to close the gap between races. He finds it unacceptable that if black people who are unable to attend schools want to read and write they must teach themselves. The White people were not sure if there were enough men of color ready for college, but Dubois argues that Negro college is how you the develop the man. Here lies the constant give and take under rooting where either side is at a standstill. He bargains by insisting that education to the youth should be given by ability, but does not budge on having white and black boys attend school together. Dubois mentions that black men fight for freedom but aren’t sure of their right to demand it.
This is relevant today because many feel like a more diluted version of this is happening still. If this were not true, institutions like the NAACP would be inactive. Though the focus may have shifted a bit from blacks to other minorities, educational discrimination is still prevalent today. There will always be a way for someone to find a loophole in the educational system, but being aggressive is the only way to make these issues a priority.
In my opinion I like Dubois’s idea of giving African American's a higher education than Washington's idea. African Americans are equal to everyone else in the world, so having a higher education will just help display that. Settling for menial jobs just isn't enough; this is just like Courtney said, "The "slave-like" mentality still persists today. Therefore, causing members of the race to settle for vocational education, low wage jobs, and become passive to racial injustice." Basically by settling for menial jobs, African Americans have this mentality which seems like it's okay to perform the bare minimal, as long as it's not being a slave. The thing I like about African Americans getting a higher education is that it surpasses the the bare minimum and it allows them to be competitive with the rest of our country. By getting a higher education degree, African Americans will have higher paying jobs, which in most cases means earning respect from other Americans.
ReplyDeleteAs Rebel and Courtney said, times have changed. There are respected, predominantly African American Universities which shows how things have drastically changed over time.
I more likely to agree with Dubois’s ideas for African American should get the same opportunity as Americans for higher Education. I understand Washington’s ideas for schooling which is trade school but Dubois ideas shows equal opportunity for everyone. In my opinion, giving chance to get higher education for minorities not will be beneficial for them also will be beneficial for the country. I agree with Courtney where she said because they were enslaved in the past, the slave-like mentality still exists today. Especially older African American people cannot forget about their past and still carrying that mentality. In order to get away from this kind of mentality, higher education will widen their mentality and they will be able to help older people to understand how time has changed in terms of everyone is equal.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Sam where she said this is still a relevant issue today, though perhaps it has become more of a class discussion than race discussion. It is true that rich people are getting higher education than poor people. Even though, everyone is getting grants and scholarships in college but some poor people decide to get a job after high school because of helping out their families financially or other related issues. Even though, everyone can go to college but all the opportunities for everyone is not out there and that is the problem where poor is staying poor and rich is getting richer.
Booker T. Washington was a proponent of vocational and industrial education for African-Americans in the post Civil War era while W. E. B. Dubois felt strongly that to limit African-Americans to vocational/industrial education was to settle for less than civic, economic, and political equality. I agree with Rebel that these two men were highly influenced by their own life experiences. Not having been a slave and enduring that life, Dubois makes it sound as though every African-American should strive for the higher education found at the college/university whereas Washington made that “great leap from slavery to freedom” and saw to advise the masses of African-Americans not to discount that they may earn a living “by the productions of our hands.” I see Washington as a realist of his time and experiences and wonder if he saw vocational/industrial education as part of a gradual progression leading toward the civic, economic, and political equality that Dubois advocated. To go from zero educational freedom to pursuing higher education at the university level does not seem realistic for the masses. The part that concerns me the most is the image Washington casts of the hand and its separated fingers suggesting the rightness of the Jim-Crow laws. Segregation and discrimination has a pervasive nature and cannot be bound just to things “purely social.”
ReplyDeleteToday, I think that it is important to create equal opportunities, for all races and cultures of American people. With much opportunity, I think that choice is allowed to play a larger role in a person’s lot in life and I do not look down on persons who choose a vocational route. There are multiple intelligences at work in society and all of them are not taking up university seats.
I can see the merit of both Dubois and Washington’s educational plans, and I think both of them can be useful in their own way. Washington’s plan realizes that not everyone can be a politician or a lawyer, and I think seeks to reassure people that it’s all right. Not everyone can make it to Capitol Hill, and it is important to go where you will find success. Dubois’ plan is important because it encourages African-Americans to seek higher education and to really shoot for the stars. I think this plan is important because it emphasizes the importance of education and demonstrates a faith in the community that encourages students to go out and make a difference. A plan like this is important to inspire a change. I think it is important to balance these two goals, helping everyone find where they fit best and helping them excel within those slots.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I like from Washington’s address is the statement “there is as much dignity in tilling a field as in writing a poem”. Today, in a corporate world, many look down upon those who perform “blue collar” jobs, assuming that they are less educated or driven than those who sit in an office chair. I think this statement from Washington is still relevant. It is important to remember that there is dignity in all kinds of work. While I agree that children should have the opportunity to go to college, I don’t think that we should discourage them from seeking vocational training if that’s where their success lies.
I think the disagreement between Washington and DuBois is very relevant and valid. Both have the best intentions for educating the African Americans; however, they are thinking in different perspectives. Washington's idea of vocational schooling is a more practical and realist way of looking education. He wants African Americans to gradually rise up and feels that learning these skills will be helpful now. He sees that there will be many obstacles in rising higher than this, but he doesn't disagree that its an issue. Washington feels that this is the most logical option now. However, I feel that this is more of a short term goal. Unlike Washington, DuBois is pushing the idea of having higher education because with higher education comes better opportunities and higher levels of
ReplyDeleteinfluence.
As I am a big proponent of gradual change and transition, shooting for higher education will show that African Americans are serious and willing to achieve higher opportunities for equality. If they reside in vocational schooling, the gap between African Americans and Whites will not diminish.
Booker T. Washington and W.E.B. Du Bois have unique perspectives on this issue for a logical reason. Washington, being born into slavery in the South and working in manual labor after being freed, certainly understood the importance of vocational training. Du Bois however, was born free in the North in a tolerant community, and received education from a young age. This difference in perspective is a good indicator of where they stood on education for emancipated blacks. Also important to note are both men's views on how to stop racial injustice in the future. Washington believed that cooperation with whites was the only method, while Du Bois firmly stood by the need for activism and power in the struggle for equality. Thus, Washington advocates for more vocational training, believing that the process to integration will be a progressive change. Du Bois, on the other hand, stresses the need for highly educated blacks as soon as possible, believing that real power, and as a result justice, were the only road to equality.
ReplyDeleteI stand roughly in the middle of their disagreement. I find that both vocational and university training were and are essential to achieving more equality. Today especially, vocational training seems to be relatively stigmatized as an education only for people who can’t or don’t want to go to a university. Vocational training is just as crucial for this society as university training, and thus I think more respect and dignity should be offered to people who don’t go to a university. Our society should value those who are trained in skilled labor, just as much as those who are trained in critical thinking. Thus, I conclude that shifting our thoughts about this issue is the most crucial step to creating a better educational system.